Ken Borland

Q: There was a massive impact from the Springbok bench in the second Test against the British and Irish Lions, compared to the first match; how did you guys manage that?

LdJ – I think first of all, being injured for so long, it’s just a massive privilege to be part of this series and I was very happy to have the opportunity to get on the field. As forwards, we worked really hard on the fundamentals and our attitude, especially at the set-pieces. And we had six forwards on the bench so we were able to sustain the energy level of the starters and, if possible, maybe even try and raise it. We were obviously all disappointed in what happened in the first Test, maybe that was due to a bit of rustiness. But for us, the second Test was our last chance to show what we can do and we took it really personally. And it was not just the bench that did that. We were playing for our families and our country, those who are less-privileged than us. So that really fired us up, and not just the players – the coaches, the management, everyone. It was about more than ourselves, we were keeping each other accountable and that was driving our standards. The forwards responded well to the challenges we faced, standards were set and there were areas we improved on. We maybe started a bit slow, but we really improved as the game went on. Hopefully we can carry that same energy into the deciding Test, and we still have to raise the bar higher and set higher standards.

Q: The Springboks must also be very happy with their defence, having conceded just one try in the first two Tests?

LdJ – There are always areas we can improve but we have an exceptional defence coach in Jacques Nienaber. He is never satisfied and he makes sure we aren’t either. So we have had good results in the defence, but there are definitely areas where we can still make small improvements and get even better. Across our whole game there were things we did well and things that we didn’t do so well. So we are looking to improve all aspects of our performance in the third Test, even the areas we did well in.

Q: The second Test was a ferocious game, was there a bit more niggle than usual?

LdJ – There was a little more niggle than usual but that was due to the magnitude of the game. The Lions also have very proud, world-class players. But I think the match was even bigger for us because we knew that if we lose, then we’re done for the series.

Q: So what can we expect from the third Test against a new-look Lions team?

LdJ – It’s going to be like a final for both teams. We are feeling much more comfortable after getting the win, but we know the job is not finished yet. We know we must raise our standards still further to get the final result we want. As I said, the Lions are a world-class team and we know that we have to be at our best, we know that we will absolutely have to give 100% of what we can give. The good thing is we know a lot of their players and we have done enough homework, everyone is ready, and we have to be able to adapt. It’s a must-win game for us and we can fall back on previous situations we’ve been in like the World Cup. When we are under pressure, we can say that we were there before and we came through. The Lions are all world-class players, but the focus is on ourselves and our week’s preparation. We have to make sure our system is functioning at 100% and when you see the impact the bench makes then you know that we are all on the same quality level. The Lions’ changes won’t change a lot in our preparation.

Q: Having lost the first Test in a three-match series, is the pressure now not squarely on the Springboks heading into Saturday’s second Test?

RE – Well if we win this one then the Lions must win the last one. At the World Cup, we lost to the All Blacks and we had to win our next six matches. But we are definitely the team under pressure. We were very focused last week, trying to regain the positive vibe from the World Cup and we did not say too much. The Lions were a bit the opposite. I think this week has been a bit different, our backs are against the wall. Fortunately we only have the one big injury to Ox Nche. We were always going to be a bit underdone because the second Test against Georgia was cancelled. I think with another game behind us now and a 6/2 split on the bench, we will have the wind to go the full 80 minutes. We still have the bulk of the 30 players who won the World Cup available, but in saying that, the Lions have shown they have a really competitive squad, their pack has got grunt, their backs have vision and attacking skill, and there are good touches all over that team.

Q: How tough were your preparations for the first Test with all the Covid cases?

RE – It was important how we integrated the players coming back because they were returning one or two at a time as they were released from isolation; 70-80% of the players we were happy with, but 20-30% needed really good management. Plus we had our defence and attack coaches unavailable. Because the guys who were positive had to spend seven days in their hotel rooms we lost one week of training and one warm-up match. It was disruptive but many coaches have had to go through that in the last 18 months. Even though you don’t go totally to pieces and lose shape in a week, some players just slotted in but others needed more time to get their engines going. We definitely have to manage the mental wellbeing and welfare of our players. The Lions are the big thing for us this season, but from the next weekend after the series we have two Tests against Argentina and then eight weeks in Australasia, three weeks off and then the end-of-year tour to Europe.

Q: What did you make of the British and Irish Lions’ objection to South African Marius Jonker being the TMO?

RE – It’s a difficult one and I was a bit baffled when Marius was appointed, but it could not be helped due to Covid. We are close friends but I made a point of not phoning him before the match because being appointed so suddenly must have been a tough thing for him. But for the Lions to point out that he is South African did not sit well with me. When New Zealand and Australia played each other last year in the Rugby Championship, they had referees from the host country, that’s the way it is with Covid.

If Ben O’Keeffe does not give us a decision we want on Saturday, we would never say it’s because he’s a New Zealander and Warren Gatland also comes from New Zealand. I learnt when I was younger and said a bit too much about referees, it comes back to bite you.

Q: You have posted a few clips to social media of decisions you felt went against you, has the series now become a battle in the media almost as much as on the field?

RE – I’ve also learnt that if you talk in the media too much it also tends to backfire on you. But then Warren Gatland – who is a great guy – spoke a lot about Marius Jonker last week, which was weird going into a Test. We would never say Warren Gatland is a New Zealander and the referee is one as well. The referee has only got one pair of eyes, but if you are analysing things he is supposed to see then you are still upholding his integrity.

Q: On those social media tweets, are you Jaco Johan and why did you go public with the clips?

RE – I’m not Jaco Johan but I do follow him, he’s a big supporter of the Springboks and he feeds us good clips. He’s a really funny guy and I enjoy what he does, he’s often spot-on, like other guys I have followed and retweeted like SquidgeRugby. I just retweeted two or three of his really accurate tweets and sent two of my own tweets. The one was because our medical department and the BokSmart safety programme they run, tells us that the way Cheslin Kolbe was just picked up off the ground when he could have had a serious injury was very dangerous. We teach our primary school players that’s not how you treat players, you leave the guy on the ground. I wouldn’t want our Springboks to be picking up every Lions player that’s lying on the ground.

Q: If you were unhappy with the outcome of the Test, did you complain through the official channels?

RE – No, the Lions deserved to win. We tried to go through official channels on Sunday with some queries about decisions, we sent through clips, but we only got an answer from WorldRugby on Tuesday morning. So that’s disruptive when there are things you are trying to rectify and you want guidance on things you can fix. They said the officiating was the same as in the Six Nations. But we only had one training session left by the time they got back to us, we might still be able to incorporate a couple of things.

Q:This week former England and British and Irish Lions coach Sir Clive Woodward, in his column for the Daily Mail saidyoushould “butt out” because you are“taking over again” and the “confusion at the top and a lack of demarcation between the roles of director of rugby … and … national team coach … is killing the Springboks”. What do you think of those comments?

RE – “I’m not sure Clive Woodward is so important in South Africa, but Jacques Nienaber and I are great mates, we’ve worked a lot together since our days in the military back in 1990. I’m the water-carrier now, so he’s got a higher rank than me now, that makes him my boss at the moment. If we had scored that try in the 71^st minute then people would say the relationship is working perfectly. Jacques’ job is the coaching, my job is to get the structure right, make sure we are given a fair chance, get through the Covid protocols and make sure players are available. I also need to inform people what is going on. And I help with the coaching plan and I carry water. The important thing is that all the players are now back on the park and training every day this week.

While the Sharks team has scrapped their way into the SuperRugby playoffs, an off-field battle has been polluting the waters around KwaZulu-Natal rugby. John Smit, who has announced he will be stepping down as chief executive, with Gary Teichmann, another former Springbok captain, announced this week as his successor, answers Ken Borland’s questions about the controversies and successes of his term.

What has caused the delay in the financial statements?

JS: Essentially we were renegotiating our debt/equity situation and the favourable outcome was announced this week with the recapitalisation of shares. It has some complexities, but in essence SuperSport have acquired 9% from KZNRU and then both entities have been issued more shares, together with another financial instrument, the net effect of which is that the Sharks have R40m recapitalised. Furthermore, we were trying to make sure that any future arrangement benefited our schools, clubs and development programmes. To this end Supersport really stepped up to the plate and we are most fortunate to be able to count on them as a shareholder. They will support our amateur organisation to grow our school base, clubs and support our development programme. We’re in a great space.

The economic downturn has affected all the franchises, but just how badly off are the Sharks?

JS: I don’t think it is news that our franchises are under pressure with attempting to retain players while competing with foreign currency, but we as a franchise had to do something to stem the tide and create a business plan that takes us back to operating successfully on both fronts, on the field and off. With this amazing move from SuperSport to inject R40m into the Sharks we can now realistically look at having a profit-bearing budget for the first time in over a decade by 2019. We have had to think smartly as to how we contract players and as frustrated as people have been this year with on-field performance, our new, much younger squad with far less internationals has in its first year together qualified for the playoffs, which for me is a great sign considering the draw of death we were in. This group is signed with us for the next few years and I can’t wait to see how they blossom. Our financial performance in 2016 is right on track and will reflect some of the major changes already implemented. Losses should not exceed R5m and hopefully we do a little better.

How has your relationship been with KZNRU president Graham McKenzie and chairman of the board Stephen Saad?

JS: These two men as well as others on the board have been very supportive of me in my tenure, Stephen has given me so much of his time, for which I am truly grateful as he runs a massive business, values time with his family immensely and he has always found time to assist with every issue I brought him over the last three years.

Are you satisfied with the number of sponsors on board and the key relationships you have developed for the union during your time as CEO?

JS: This is probably the area of the business I enjoyed most and looking back on the revenue we managed to increase on the sponsorship front over the last three years is pleasing. The fact that Cell C have bought into the vision and plan for this team’s future by renewing for a further three years is probably our biggest victory in this rebuilding phase. The other very important relationship that needed mending was with our very own city. Being one of Durban’s greatest assets I found it sad how far removed we were from each other and can proudly say that we now truly are partners. Durban Tourism has been instrumental in us being able to host the All Blacks this year and from there the discussions around a possible stadium move emerged, now knowing full well that any such move would need to benefit both parties should it happen.

You have been criticised for getting rid of Sharks stalwarts like John Plumtree and Rudolf Straeuli, what were the reasons for your decisions?

JS: I think in my three years one thing I could count on was that every time the team lost I was guaranteed to hear or read about Plum not being renewed! So much has been written and said about this issue but I have to say I was devastated at how it was handled. I had a very different idea in my mind of how this process was going to unfold while still in the UK, until one journalist and ex-coach decided to play their part. Never was it my intention to have Plum treated like that and he is justifiably angry. The discussion I wanted to have with Plum was to be one-on-one to ascertain where he saw himself currently and why he believed we hadn’t excelled at SuperRugby yet with the quality of squad we had. One needs to remember that coming in as a new CEO making that change was not an easy one or one taken without the consultation of many players, board members and rugby people close to the brand, with the most important part of this process being taken away by not being able to discuss with Plum himself. The irony is Plum had for months prior to my appointment been asking my predecessor to extend his contract with no luck. It is sad for me how it turned out, Plum was a friend of mine and as a coach I enjoyed playing under him while at the Sharks.

Rudolf asked to leave when offered the Lions CEO post. My relationship with him is still strong and I have always enjoyed Rudolf, his success at the Lions is no surprise to me. He was a great asset to us.

Do you have any advice for your successor?

JS: Wow, how long do we have! On a serious note though, I’m delighted that Gary Teichmann is our next CEO. We have sat down and discussed the areas integral to the business and where the possible hurdles lie. My advice to him was to try and block out the noise and focus on the job, he too will have similar challenges as I did being a high-profile person coming in and it’s important he knows that the same people who pump up his tyres now will slash them at will when they don’t get what they feel they need. So the best advice I can give is the same advice I was given many years ago: Decide your direction of journey, stay on course and don’t be distracted by either the good or bad noise along the way.

Pieter-Steph du Toit

Q: How did it feel for the Springboks to be booed off the field at halftime?

PSdT: Well the first half was quite a shocker and being booed, well we fully deserved it. But we were 100% better in the second half and we showed what we can do. It’s difficult to describe the feeling when you get booed like that, but it made me a bit angry, I wanted to show that we are not that bad. If you play good rugby, then the crowd gets behind you.

Q: What went wrong in the first half?

PSdT: Us players were all on the field, but we just weren’t playing, we had no energy, we all just seemed a bit tired. I do not know why that happened in the first half, I have no explanation at the moment, except that our game plan was to work around the corner and we didn’t do that as the forwards.

Q: How did the Springboks manage to pull off such an amazing comeback?

PSdT: Eben Etzebeth and I spoke about it and we never doubted that we could win, and if you believe it then you can do it. There was a mindshift – we knew we had to win, so we had to lift our game to a different level and the changes helped too, a guy like Ruan Combrinck was man of the match after playing just 40 minutes, so that’s quite an effort. We stuck to the game plan more, the forwards came into the game and we cut out the mistakes. We made a lot of errors in the first half, we didn’t keep the ball, and Allister Coetzee and Adriaan Strauss spoke to us about that and said if this was our last Test for South Africa, how would we play? Of course they were upset.

Warren Whiteley

Q: How satisfying was that second-half comeback and how did you pull it off?

WW: We’re delighted with the win and the character we showed. We definitely felt the momentum swing early in the second half and that gave us a chance. We got quick ball and we were hitting the advantage line and so creating space out wide. We managed to keep that width, make holes in the middle and earn the right to go wide. It means a lot because we were extremely disappointed after the first half, but we showed our character in the second half, which is definitely going to be a massive confidence boost.

Q: Did you feel extra pressure coming on straight after halftime in front of your home crowd with the Springboks in a hole, and do you think you’ve secured a starting place now?

WW: Every time I step on to the field it’s a privilege and I try to make sure I use every opportunity. I didn’t feel any extra pressure, but I was highly motivated to make a difference. No, I don’t think I can talk about starting places because there are a lot of very talented loose forwards in the squad – Jaco Kriel hasn’t even played a game yet and there’s a guy like Sikhumbuzo Notshe also waiting in the wings.

Q: There’s been plenty of talk already about the win being down to all the members of the Lions team you captain who were on the field in the second half … is that why the Springboks won the game?

WW: There’s no way it was the Lions team who won the game, collectively we worked together on the game plan and the style of rugby we wanted to play. The first week together was tough, we did lots of work but lost, and this week was tough too. But slowly and surely we’re getting into our rhythm, we’re still reading and learning about each other. This was only my fifth Test, I’ve never had to link with Damian de Allende before, I’ve never scrummed behind Pieter-Steph du Toit before, so I’m still learning how to play with them.